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 Coping with Panic/Anxiety
 anyone knows about Cardiac Coherence? (Page 1)
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| Author | Topic: anyone knows about Cardiac Coherence? |
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naurika Member Posts: 723 |
posted March 05, 2004 12:21 PM
 
This is all about the power of the mind over the rhythm of our heart. For instance (according to a study published in the American Journal of Cardiology),if you bring to your mind a positive emotion - the face of your child, a wonderful peaceful landscape, anything that gives you a wonderfulsense of well-being), those encourage cardiac coherence. But as it is a concept and a term that are new to me, I wonder if anyone out there knows something about it and could share it. It seems particularly appropriate to MVPS sufferers who get panic attacks and tachycardia. I am trying to do research on this, because although it is an old idea - experienced meditators can quickly reach a state of "cardiac coherence" . It shows that cardiac rhythm can be influenced by the mind - after some training, and quite a bit of practice - this in theory could apply to us too - So we have in our power, the possibility toinduce a state of balance between the 2 parts of the nervous system: the sympathetic (which is like an accelerator, the part that floods us with adrenaline and goes into overdrive, that is when we have a panic attack) and the parasympathetic (like the brakes, it slows everything down). There are specific techniques (like meditation but not quite, more like biofeedback I guess) to induce this "cardiac coherence" - There exists even a Cardiac Coherence software apparently which guides you through it. I don't know much more, but it seems to me that it is possibly a modernised and westernised re-hash of century-old Eastern traditions, and why not? If it works, and you can do it at home, and it does not hurt anybody else or myself, and if it means dispensing with some medication, great! But while I am doing my research (not much on the web)I thought that perhaps there is someone (s)? here who might be able to say more, or to explain better, and then those of us who would like to can use those methods to help ourselves and take more of our lives back! In the meantime (this is the broken record bit) I came across it in the new book by David-Servan-Schreiber, just published in the US, called "The Instinct to Heal: Curing Stress, Anxiety, and Depression without Drugs and Without Talk Therapy" - I was pleasantly shocked to see that the first patient he mentions as someone who benefitted from learning cardiac coherence, called "Marie" who had terrible panic attacks, had... guess what... a prolapsed mitral valve! And yes she did very well with controlling her "panic attacks"! And by the way, I don't have any vested interests in the book, I don't even know the guy!!!I just got interested through some articles abbout this neuro-psychiatrist who was using complementary therapies.... ------------------ |
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msmerlinsmagic Member Posts: 1677 |
posted March 05, 2004 01:23 PM
naurika, I think this is a great consept to look into. Thanks for sharing the info. It has been something I have been looking to learn about. Best Wishes, Lisa |
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naurika Member Posts: 723 |
posted March 06, 2004 08:28 AM
Lisa, Thank you for responding, as I have been a little incoherent :-) in my attempt to explain cardiac coherence. It feels like being on the edge of discovering something big, but I can't quite get the width and the breadth of it: have you, yourself, come across this notion anywhere else recently? My web searches do not lead very far - except that it seems some large companies are already jumping on the bandwagon, and getting their management trained in that as it makes them so much more effective, if they are impervious to panic when they make big decisions etc... I think it touches on cognitive therapy and on probably many other related, mind-control disciplines. I wonder also if it might have something to do with the ability to enter into a different brainwave pattern - like going into alpha waves for instance, as we do when we rest and are on the edge of sleep. The ability to do this at will, would surely affect the way we can respond when we are suddenly hit with a racing heart and allied manifestations! If you know, or can find out more, please post, or even email me directly, as I am not sure everybody is interested in this - it might be a bit too cutting-edge yet. Still, it would be great to get more feedback. Thanks for showing interest. ------------------ |
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msmerlinsmagic Member Posts: 1677 |
posted March 06, 2004 01:32 PM
naurika, No, I have not come accross anything on cardiac coherrance and am glad you did. I have hope to become cardiac control med free in a little over a year because my heart nerves had gained a dependancy on the med, the way a heroin addicts body gains dependancy. I want to find a mind body connection on some natural control ability for my future if I have success with my long term heart med detox. Even if I am not able to manage a good heart beat off the med it would still be great to have mastered this technique, while I even have problems on the meds. As far as I got on anything close to this is in Ayerviedic Medicine they utilize yoga and breathing techniques and that is not exactly what I was hoping for. So thanks and I hope you will keep us posted. I must shift my focus for a few weeks as I have a big Psychology Exam coming up. Then I will go back into study on our health interests. Blessings, Lisa |
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naurika Member Posts: 723 |
posted March 07, 2004 01:16 AM
Lisa - here is wishing you a lot of concentration for your revision towards the big Psychology exam. I am sorry you will be somewhat "off the boards" for a while but look forward to you returning here when it is over. As for "cardiac coherence": I am intrigued by the connection with ayurvedic medicine? It is true that the techniques I have seen described to achieve that state of cardiac coherence do involve focusing on your breathing and visualising your heart in the middle of your chest, and you imagine that you breathe through the heart - and it means sitting down for half an hour each day to master the technique so that you can reach this point of high concentration in seconds - there are other aspects to the technique of course, the way I am describing it is very crude. But of course, even if this seems unattainable, we all know that there is no quick and easy fix for us. I am quite prepared to put a little effort into this if it means gaining some more insight and control over these distressing symptoms. BTW cardiac coherence can be used in other heart problems, like post-infarct, etc. I am sorry Lisa that you are having to deal with such complicated and concerning issues regarding your own heart and medications, but you are so good at research and sound so strong and capable - if anybody can manage all this, you certainly can! Best wishes though - it never hurts...I'll continue with my research and will post anything that seems worth posting - maybe you will still read the postings anyway. ------------------ |
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msmerlinsmagic Member Posts: 1677 |
posted March 07, 2004 01:59 AM
naurika, Thank you for the compliment and support! I confess I have recently mentioned to others that you too, are one of the great minds I have seen in this forum! smiley with sunglasses! My test is scheduled on March 19th so I will be on the board less but I will still be popping in from time to time for short peaks (as I am now an MVP forum addict! lol) And I look forward to doing research with you and reading on mastering the technique of cardiac coherance. I am sure this will be right in my nich of experience because I own a business about spirituality and part of the focus on spiritual practice is meditaition. So I have some experience with that and it is comforting to know that we may be able to shift more of our higher selfs toward healing techniques of our physical problems. I hope you will enjoy this journey of study and I will join you soon!! Brightest Blessing to You and Thank You for being a determined one! Lisa [This message has been edited by msmerlinsmagic (edited March 07, 2004).] |
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allinknots Member Posts: 91 |
posted March 08, 2004 02:24 PM
this sounds like something I need to learn cause I let my thoughts take over and its like a viscious cycle |
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naurika Member Posts: 723 |
posted March 09, 2004 03:56 AM
More info on "cardiac coherence": most of what is available as materialand information comes from The Heartmath Institute in California, www.heartmath.org They are a non-profit research and education organisation, look them up, they have leaflets, books, a learning programme - the booklet on Neurocardiology sounds particularly interesting, but perhaps their material is mainly for those with a background in neuro-anatomy and neurophysiology (which I don't have,although some of you might) As far as I can tell there is the idea that we have an "emotional brain" which is directly linked to our heart and we can train ourselves to get the parasympathetic nervous system (whis slows us down and calms us) into gear when it is being disabled by the sympathetic (the one that produces chaos and overstimulation, as in panic attacks and fast and disordered heart rhythm. I would very much welcome any feedback by anyone else who looks into this, or who already has. See whether you are interested, allinknots - and anyone else. Thank you all for being here. ------------------ |
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naurika Member Posts: 723 |
posted March 09, 2004 03:58 AM
lisa - I sent you a short email, at the email address listed here, but I think it bounced back - I am so nervous about viruses that I deleted it without looking - if you have time and inclination, do respond. If not, roll on 19th March!!! - Break a leg as they say... ------------------ |
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msmerlinsmagic Member Posts: 1677 |
posted March 09, 2004 02:12 PM
naurika, I sent you a detailed email yesterday when I got yours. I was happy to hear from you and responded quickly. I hope you got it. If not let me know, I have it saved in my sent file and I will resend it. Thanks for the leg breaking! (laughing smiley face) Blessings, Lisa |
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msmerlinsmagic Member Posts: 1677 |
posted March 11, 2004 01:09 PM
Naurika, I hope you have been getting my emails. ????
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naurika Member Posts: 723 |
posted March 11, 2004 11:46 PM
No, Lisa, I haven't been getting any mail from you, not once, not ever???What is going on? My email address here in my profile is the right one, I've just emailed you too, do YOU get my mails? ------------------ |
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naurika Member Posts: 723 |
posted March 31, 2004 10:16 AM
I am resurrecting this topic to see if anyone has come across it since I first posted about it. Some more research, about acquiring cardiac coherence, shows that you CAN AFFECT YOUR CARDIAC RHYTHM through the power of mind - heavy meditators will know about that, as it has strong similarities with yogic breathing, Qi Gong and other internal martial art techniques, also Schulz's biofeedback. It is to do with visualising while you breathe long and slow in and out breaths (through the nose according to yoga tradition, as it is calming. There exists a machine that can record the variability of your cardiac rhythm (like your personal EKG)so that you can monitor what you are doing. It is important to do this regularly every day - just like prayer and/or meditation and exercise - Lisa - Medisana is a German company,a few years ago I bought from them an acupuncture point locator to use on my patients for auriculotherapy - no wonder the name sounded familiar. Price of the EKG machine about 285 dollars,but according to some sites it is "not available at the moment". I am trying to find out more. I hope more of us will get interested in this and share their experience! I believe it could be a wonderful tool for a lot of us: to know that we can develop ways to help ourselves to control better our heart rhythm! ------------------ |
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msmerlinsmagic Member Posts: 1677 |
posted March 31, 2004 02:23 PM
Naurika, The Medisana Cardiocheck was pulled from the shelves in the US because the FDA said it provided too much information for the average consumer. It shows the three major funtions of an ecg and the medical concern is that patients will use it to self diagnose with. It shows an very accurate reading of my skipped beats and exactly how long of a pause occurs when it is reading them. It also shows the most accurate beat to beat reading of a pulse rate. It shows the QRS complexes, so one can tell if they are at risk with an arrhythmia and it also shows the ST waves so one can see how well blood is circulating in their heart and if they are at risk for the damage of a heart attack. It comes with an easy to understand instruction booklet for consumers in laymens terms (which is done in six different languages) I find it a valuable tool to use as a biofeedback messurement when practicing the cardiac coherence technique. I believe it is the most valuable tool in my possession and wish that it was not so guarded in many areas. I am posting links of retailers that may carry it. I wish consumers would advocate to put it on the market as more avalible to the public. Lisa http://www.rikaton.ee/eng/cardioeng.html http://www.kelkoo.nl/b/a/ss_medisana.html http://www.ycyhealth.com/heart_pulse_analyser.htm http://www.alive.nl/cardiocheck.htm http://www.teamdrugs.com/securestore/c153855.2.html http://www.mundogar.com/latienda/producto.asp?sku=5005 http://medisana.de/en/products/therapy/53000.html [This message has been edited by msmerlinsmagic (edited March 31, 2004).] |
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vehoe Member Posts: 4 |
posted March 31, 2004 05:46 PM
Some people have an amazing amount of control over their bodies; they can induce various mental and physical states at will. Medical lore has it that autonomic responses are not under consicous control; but seemingly they can brought under it. I have no idea how that might work from the POV of neurology, but it's fascinating. |
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